Creating Space: Mo Kanjilal on Inclusion, Tech and Turning Points

In this episode of Creatives Like Us, host Angela Lyons speaks with Mo Kanjilal, diversity and inclusion leader, TEDx speaker, and co-founder of Watch This Sp_ce. Mo shares her journey from senior roles in the tech industry to launching a purpose-led inclusion consultancy during the pandemic. With a background in English and a career spanning global sales and marketing, Mo talks candidly about the challenges of working in non-diverse environments, the importance of representation, and how she channelled those experiences into meaningful change. The pair discuss the founding of Watch This Sp_ce, the thinking behind its distinctive name, and the creative process behind Mo’s co-authored book The Inclusion Journey, which explores how organisations can build inclusive cultures through practical, human-centred steps.

The conversation also touches on the power of mentoring, the value of being paid for your expertise, and how Mo balances multiple roles, from charity trustee to writer. Angela and Mo reflect on how creativity shows up in unexpected ways, particularly in sectors like tech, and the importance of saying yes to opportunity. Mo shares insights into her team’s flexible, remote approach to work, the growing impact of their consultancy, and what’s next for her personally and professionally, including plans for a second book and more public speaking. With thoughtful, grounded reflections throughout, this is a rich and inspiring listen for anyone navigating creative or mission-driven work.

Mo's Links

Mo’s website:
https://www.watchthisspace.uk/services/speaking/mo-kanjilal-speaker/ 

Mo’s TedX talk:
https://youtu.be/iPDsC4LPPc0

Mo’s book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inclusion-Journey-Creating-strategy-engagement/dp/1398616729

The Clock Tower Sanctuary - https://www.thects.org.uk/

Here – Care Unbound (where Mo is aNon-Exec Director) - https://hereweare.org.uk/

Technative Digital where Mo is a Board Advisor - https://www.technativedigital.com/

The Girls Network where Mo is a mentor - https://www.thegirlsnetwork.org.uk/

Chapters

• 1:10 Introducing Mo Kanjilal
• 2:09 How did you start on your journey?
• 3:42 How long did you work with tech companies?
• 7:59 Who are your catalyst connections?
• 9:21 How did the Watch This Sp_ce brand come about?
• 10:38 What are the latest projects for Watch This Sp_ce?
• 15:46 Did you pitch for the TEDx talk?
• 19:15 Can you tell me about the Clocktower Sanctuary?
• 21:55 What does the future hold for you?
• 25:49 Is there a dream client you'd like to work with?

Transcript

Mo

It was hard, because it's not diverse at all in those industries, so nobody looks like me or sounds like me. It was really hard work.

So I had the opportunity to do that, and I really focused on bringing different people in, working on behaviours and what needed to happen to really include different people, that all came from that experience in tech, because my premise has always been like, nobody should be prevented from pursuing a career they want to.

Intro

Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us, where I speak with creatives of colour, who share journeys and stories and ideas, and how they can inspire and open up avenues in creative industries. I'm your host, graphic designer Angela Lyons, and with the help of my guests, I will bring insightful interviews and compelling stories that can inspire you to think about things differently or shape your next move. Being a creative of colour can bring its challenges - highs and lows and in betweens, but this podcast is about amplifying our voices and celebrating together. So are you ready? Let's get started with Creatives Like Us.

Angela

Hi and welcome to Creatives Like Us. I'm here today with Mo, who is a diversity and inclusion leader, and I'm really looking forward to speaking to her. So over to you, Mo. Tell us who you are and what you do.

Mo

Hi. Thanks so much for having me on. I'm Mo Kanjilal, and I am one of the co-founders of Watch This Sp_ce, a diversity and inclusion company, founded during the pandemic so we're, next year we’ll be five years old. And I'm also the co-author of a book called The Inclusion Journey, which I've written with my business partner, and it was published in August this year. And I'm a TEDx speaker. I spoke at TEDx Brighton earlier this year too, and I wear a lot of hats. I do loads of other things too. So I'm also a charity board trustee, a non-exec director and a mentor for another charity too. So I do lots of things.

Angela

Wow. First off, congratulations on the book. So TEDx speaker, that's amazing too, but I'm sure the book was like a labour of love. I know writing a book is not easy, so well done on doing that. That's just fantastic. So well done, well done. Can you tell me how you started in your journey? 

Mo

Yeah, so I didn't ever set out to start my own business. It's not something I planned to do. I think probably, I did always want to write a book. So when I was at school, I did want to write a book, but when you're a child and you say you want to be a writer, it's not something that's particularly encouraged. So I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I studied subjects I liked. I studied English. So I was... always had that creative thing, but then when you finish a degree in English, it's a bit like, what am I going to do now? I've got to earn some money. So I started working in marketing because I thought that would be a good thing to do.

Angela

Straight from Uni?

Mo
Yeah, pretty much I applied for loads of marketing jobs, and then I got a job in a tech company. Just happened to be a tech company that I got the job in. I started working in marketing, I quite quickly realised I preferred sales, because that was more about like, direct conversation to people and travelling and meeting people. So I always had one foot in the door of marketing, but more on the sales side of what I really did.

Angela

It’s so funny, because a lot of people, that's especially small business owners, a lot of people do hate doing the sales.

Mo

Yeah, loved it. And I then progressed my career into like, really senior roles in tech companies, as the sales and marketing lead. So the last big corporate role I had, I was Vice President of Sales and Marketing for a big FTSE listed company with a big team around the world. So that's what I progressed to doing. But that was, that tech career was sorted by accident, it's just that's what I did first of all.

Angela

Yeah, so with that tech company, how long were you there for? If you don't mind me asking?

Mo

I worked for loads of different tech companies over a number of years. So like, one was eight years, another one was two years, like all sorts of different tech companies in different industries. I worked in the space industry, healthcare, all different kinds of software, things that stop ships colliding at sea, like all kinds of really techie products, is what I used to do for years.

Angela

Breadth of different industries there. So did that impact on your next move? Or sounds like you left those companies and you set up on your own?

Mo

Yeah. So there's a few things about the tech companies. First of all, the, to be successful in sales and marketing in a tech company, you've got to be able to understand complicated technology and explain it clearly to people to be able to sell it. But actually, my degree in English was quite useful for that, so I did that for a number of years, and I was successful. I progressed to the senior role, but it was hard, because it's not diverse at all in those industries, so nobody looks like me or sounds like me. It was really hard work. I used to have to put up with all sorts of things. And when I look back on it, I don't know why I did, because it was tough. So I always thought, well, it shouldn't be like this. It should be that anyone can progress a career in tech, because technology is about things that we use all around us. So it should involve…

Angela

Everyone! Using it, shouldn’t it?

Mo

Everyone should be involved. So that’s why I started working on diversity and inclusion when I was in a tech company. I was in a senior role, so I had the opportunity to do that, and I really focused on bringing different people in, working on behaviours and what needed to happen to really include different people. That all came from that experience in tech, because my premise has always been, like, nobody should be prevented from pursuing a career they want to because they're going to experience discrimination. It shouldn't be that way. And so that's what happened. And then I did that for a long time, and loved it. I loved all the travelling around the world and everything. But then eventually I thought, well, actually, I've had enough of this, now want to do something different.

So I left corporate life, cashed in my shares, and started working for a much smaller company in Brighton, where I live. A smaller software company, which I loved. It was brilliant there, because it was completely different to corporate life, where you had all, to get signatures for everything, and it wasn't like that at all. 

Angela

It takes years!

Mo

Yeah, but then it meant I had time. That was the crucial thing, because I wasn't in corporate anymore, I had some time. So I started volunteering for a charity. So I still mentor for The Girls Network, and it's all about mentoring girls to show them like different careers they can pursue. So I started doing that, and they asked me to be a panellist at an event in (this is in 2018), and that evening, the other panellist was my now business partner, Allegra. That's how we met.

Angela

Wow! Wow. That’s That's amazing.

Mo

Yeah!

Angela

It's just the power of connections, and power would be, the right place at the right time, and it just…

Mo

And had I not gone that evening? It's just the thing that I did. And so we had very similar answers to a lot of the questions. We sort of connected that evening. She was already, she was working in digital marketing, so she was running with some other people, a group called Brighton Digital Women, for women in tech. So I then started helping them with that, and organising the events with them. And then that was all. Then we went into lockdown. And then in lockdown, we were on a zoom call, and we said, the thing is though, it's not just about women in tech, it's a much wider thing, all sorts of ideas we we're talking about. And we said, we can't leave the house. We've got all this time. Should we just try starting a company? And that was the start of Watch This Sp_ce.

Angela

Wow. How about that? That creative company, created in lockdown by a chance meeting, and then, obviously, sadly, lockdown. But it was a good thing. It was a good thing. It turned into a good thing.

Mo

Yeah, it's weird. A lot of people created things in lockdown, I think. 

Angela

They did, yeah.

Mo

And that was when I started really writing the novel that I'm still trying to write, but I started to really do that in lockdown.

Angela

Is it fiction?

Mo
Fiction. Yeah, started doing that in lockdown, started to Watch This Sp_ce. We, right at the beginning of Watch This Sp_ce, said we wanted to write a book, that was always on our ideas of what we wanted to do. So actually, although it was an awful time for loads of people, for us, it was quite a creative time.

Angela

I suppose it's um, one of my questions was going to be about a catalyst connection, but somebody in your, in your lifetime, changed you, or changed a path that you went down, was Allegra that person, or has there been more? Or has there been?

Mo

That was… when you sent me that question, I was like, there's so many people. There's so many people. So when I was in corporate, somebody said to me, have you heard about these conferences run by someone called Dr Sam Collins. She runs Aspire for Equality, which is this women's leadership. And I was like, No. And I went to an event. This is when I was still in my corporate role. And that was really enlightening. That was just like, Oh, I could do something different. So she's definitely been pivotal. I went to an event of hers actually last week, and it was really great to see her again.

Angela

Are you still in touch with her?

Mo

Yeah, definitely. It was at one of her events that I met somebody from The Girls Network who said, “Have you thought about mentoring for The Girls Network?” So that was another pivotal one. Then, yes, there was meeting Allegra, and then so many things like that happen along the way. I think they just do in your life.

Angela

Yeah, they do. But that question always makes for people, when I've asked it to the guests, they always go, Oh, and this person and that person. And they realise, like, how many people had an effect on them? And I think that's what I love about, especially doing this podcast, because I think hopefully someone will listen to this and then get inspired by you or somebody else they hear, and it'll just be a pass on the next thing and next thing. So it's like passing it on, really, isn't it?

Mo

Definitely, yeah.

Angela

And Watch This Sp_ce. I just want to ask you about that, because I'm a Brand Graphic Designer, I just have to ask, why is the a missing? So I've got the logo, it says, Watch This Sp_ce, and it says Sp_ce. So just wondering, obviously the A is missing. What does? Can you tell me about that?

Mo

So the name was actually thought up by Allegra’s husband, it wasn't either of us! And it was sort of a play on Mind the Gap and gender pay gaps. And like, you know, a kind of a play on that, but also a bit of a warning, like, you need to watch out, because there are gaps in spaces that in society, that we need to fill. And then the underscore, the dropping of the a, is to represent those gaps and spaces that are missing. It's a kind of warning to say who's missing from your organisation? That's what you need to think about. And it's been really interesting, because at the time, I don't think we realised how good it would be, but it's been really good for SEO and, like, brand recognition. Yeah, we, I don't think we realised how good it would be at the time.

Angela

It is good. I'll put the link in the show notes, but I think it's such a great name. And also the way you actually presented it, and the brand logo, everything around it, the brand, and now you've actually explained it to me. I'm like, Oh, that's really cool.

Mo

And the bracket in the logo, yeah, the spaces, yeah, to represent, like, that's the space, who's missing in your space?

Angela

Yeah, yeah, love it. I love it. And what are you doing at the moment with Watch This Sp_ce? Where are you guys at now? What's the latest projects?

Mo

So this year has been a big year for us with the book, that's been a huge thing. So with the book, we wanted to write a book, but it's very easy to say you want to write a book, how do you make that happen? And then we got approached by like our dream publisher, the one that we'd already looked up. They approached us last summer, the editor, and said, I've been like researching and wondered if you're interested in writing a book. And we’re like yeah!!

Angela

What are the chances?! That? Wow. How did they, can I just ask that quickly before we continue, how did they find you? Was it just they…

Mo

I think they just searched for us on the internet. We've had quite a lot of publicity. So we won a national competition in 2021 that was this business street competition that got us quite a lot of publicity, and then we won a couple of other awards after that. So we already had quite a lot of publicity. We've had loads of PR as well, and loads of like, news articles and things. I think probably if you search diversity and inclusion company, we must come up.

Angela

You must be.

Mo

…Quite well, yeah.

Angela

It's doing well, yeah. And also featured in yeah brilliant.

Mo

And then probably, they saw us on LinkedIn, probably through another connection, something like that. So it came through that. And then they, yeah, they said to us, do you want to write a book? And we said, Yes, we'd love to write a book. And they said you could publish it next year, so we could have published it in 2025 or you can go for it in 2024. Allegra and I have a tendency to say yes to things and figure out how to do it afterwards. And we said, Yes, that's what we'll do. So actually it was… so we started writing it in October. So it was almost this time last year. We started writing it in October. We finished writing it in… probably beginning of March. That's how long it took to write.

Angela

Wow. And it's published. And when was the published date?

Mo

August. Yeah.

Angela

This year?

Mo

Yeah.

Angela

Wow, fantastic. I do actually know that, because I've been looking at you checking you out, but the listeners that is just like, amazing that you did it in, that’s like, less than a year!

Mo

Yeah, we loved it. We absolutely loved writing it. We had such a good time. We've actually got an idea for book number two that we're meeting about to talk about soon as well. So the book has changed things for us, because it's given us more reach. People are approaching us that we didn't know before. It's been, it's growing our influence with the book. We've now got a team of people that work for us as well around the country, so that we're getting clients in different areas now. So we are, what we want to do now is really work on that and really expand our reach as much as we can, into different sectors, in different parts of the country, and just really grow that brand reputation. Do lots more speaking. After TEDx, you get approached quite a lot to do a lot of speakings. I've done a lot, doing more of that as well. And, yeah, we've got this idea for book number two. So we're going to start sketching out the proposal for that.

Angela

Is that along the same things, or is it something different?

Mo

Kind of delving further into it? Because the Inclusion Journeys book, what that book does is it goes through the whole journey of how you take an organisation through an inclusion journey, and it's got loads of stories and case studies and people we interviewed and things like that. The next one, we want to go further into what some of the root causes are of people not feeling included. It's about communication. We really want to go, like further into that.

Angela

Yeah. Are any of your experiences documented in the book?

Mo

Not loads of personal stories. There is some in there, yeah, but we mostly research and interview people. So actually, with the second book, we might put more of ourselves into that, more of our stories, because Allegra had her own experiences with work as well. That drove her to, the reason she became self employed was after she had a baby, she had to basically, so.

Angela

No choice.

Mo

Yeah, she's got her own stories about it. So yeah, I think probably the next one will build more of our own stories into it.

Angela

Yeah, that'd be great. It'd be nice to hear a little bit about you in there too. And obviously people relate to that? Yeah. So that's where you're at now, promoting the book, obviously, within the company?

Mo

Promoting the book. We've just done a whole load of book launch events for a couple of months, which we went all over the place to do that. Continue promoting the book, and do all talks and try and expand the business, and then work on this second book, do that as well. And then I'm also, I've got some ideas that I love doing the TEDx talk, absolutely loved it. And I've got some ideas about trying to work on another one and pitch it somewhere else.

Angela

Fantastic. I'm just always interested with TEDx talks. Do you actually? Did you pitch for that? Or did they come to you? Or was it just that? How does it work?

Mo

So it's a mixture. I think some people do pitch, but sometimes they, the organisers reach out. So for me, the organiser of Ted exploration, I think we'd met at an event somewhere, and I think maybe I'd said something about what I'd be interested in talking about. And then I think we had a couple of messages on LinkedIn. I didn't know him very well at all, met for a coffee, and then talked more about the idea. The idea I'd actually had for a long time, is one that's been brewing in my head. So I talked about valuing the power of our differences, and that's something that is a theme that I've thought about a lot, and it's all about how actually, if we if we stopped kind of hating each other for being different, and actually understood differences more, wouldn't things be better?

Angela

Wouldn't the world be a better place if we all did that?

Mo

Yeah, exactly. So that's what I talked about.

Angela

Yeah. So this TEDx talk, just going back to it, because I love listening to them. Can people listen to it? Can they find would you?

Mo

Yeah I’ll send you the link

Angela

Send me the links, and I'll put that in the show notes too. That'd be great. Yeah.

Mo

I loved doing it as well. Like, if you ever get the opportunity, do it, it’s brilliant.

Angela

Funny enough, I just did my first talk by myself last week, but it wasn't a TEDx talk. It was at a co-workspace, and it's taken me a while to get my public voice out there - was one of the reasons why I'm doing the podcast. I'm going to be sharing people's voices as well as my own, because I think sometimes I've shied away from it over the last few years. And I did a co working talk last week on brand visibility, and it was 15 minutes long, and I got up and I did it, and I was like, Oh, my God, that was I had a clicker and everything. And I was like, Oh, look at me.

Mo

Brilliant. And the more you do it, the easier it gets. You get more and more experience.

Angela

That’s what people have been saying! You get less nervous, and you get more and more experience. And, yeah, yeah. So day to day, how do you work together? And do you consider yourselves creatives?

Mo

So we started our business in lockdown when we couldn't leave the house. So we've always worked in that way. We don't live in the same place anyway, so we wouldn't be able to have an office. Yeah, Allegra moved further down the coast later on in lockdown. But our team are also based all around the country, and also our whole premise is we don't want traditional work structures, so we're not, don't have an office. We all work flexible hours. We work when it suits us as well, so we don't have set hours. So we work at the times of day that work for us. So Allegra has children, so she can work it around that. Kaya, who works for us, also has loads of, we all have loads of projects going on. So we work really flexibly and remotely. We do sometimes meet up, the meeting to catch up on things, and obviously go to your clients a lot as well. So we do a lot of that.

And then creatives, definitely. So all of us involved in the business love writing. So all the blogs, the content that you see is all us. That is because we're all really passionate about writing. And as well as the kind of work writing and the books that we're doing, we all, well I write fiction, Allegra writes fiction as well. Kaya, who works for us, she's really creative with video. So yeah, we're a very creative company, and I think that has helped us a lot as well, because we have those ideas and creativity. It helped us with the business. And between us, we've got some of the skills that often business owners will struggle with, which is sales. So I'm happy doing that.

Angela

You're fine with that aren’t you!

Mo

Then marketing as well. So I get approached all the time on LinkedIn by people saying that they want to start their own diversity inclusion company, or they want to start out themselves. And I always say to them, like, are you aware how much sales and marketing is involved in that? Because if, if you're not aware of that, I think it can be quite a shock to people when they start out, they're freelancers and things. I think they think that it's going to be easy to get work, but it's not. You have to really work at it a lot.

Angela

Yeah, yeah. I think that's one of the things, isn't it? Because you have an idea, and especially with creatives, it's, oh, my God, I've got the idea, and it's all great. It's great. And you just think, Oh, I got to tell the world about that now, and you've got, I suppose I'd say even it's 50/50 isn't it? 50% work and 50% you've got to keep, you know, that pipeline going. You've got to keep telling people about who you are, what you do, what you can do for them, the work coming in. So that is really tough for doing the marketing side of it. So that's good advice. So thank you for that. Yeah.

Mo

Yeah, and the sales bit of it as well. It's not just about all pricing and marketing. You've got to engage in conversations with people and follow up and keep that going. And I think a lot of people find that really hard.

Angela

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I was going to ask, what's next for, um, Watch This Sp_ce? And also, do you know what, before we talk about that, I'd love to talk about the Clock Tower Sanctuary. Could you tell me a little bit more about that? Because obviously, one of my values is to be kind, and I like to give back, but obviously we've got to work and everything, but the Clock Tower must take a lot of your time too, does it? And it's voluntary. So can you tell us a little bit about that?

Mo

Yeah, so I always thought I'd like to progress into board roles, because I'd had senior roles in corporate, so I thought it'd be really good to do that as a non-exec director. And then I hadn't really thought about being a charity board trustee, until somebody I know, who is now the CEO at Clock Tower Sanctuary, she said to me back in 2020 I think, have you ever considered being a charity board trustee? And I said, No, I didn't think that was for people like me. And she was like, it really is. And right now, charities really need to diversify their board. So if you wanted to join one, there’d be loads of charities interested in talking to you. But then we did some work on what am I interested in? And it's always been young people for me. So I mentor for The Girls Network charity as well, so that’s like young people. And I already had fundraised for the Clock Tower Sancturary, so I knew the charity as well. And so I joined the board in 2021 and then I progressed, I’m now vice chair of the board as well. And but yeah, it does take up time, but perhaps not as much as people think it does. You can do it alongside other things. So you have board meetings. You need to prepare for board meetings, and then each of the trustees gets involved in areas that they're interested in. So I'm in, I'm involved with personnel and equality, because it’s something I'm interested in.

Angela

Hm, that's what you're saying, yeah. So it could be one like finance, or they could be one…

Mo

Yeah so it depends what you're interested in as to the areas you get involved in. And everybody on the board does all different job, different roles, does it alongside that. And then I also have a non exec role at a healthcare social enterprise as well, which is involved with kind of healthcare services. And I work on healthcare inequalities, everything weirdly connects in a way, that I do. 

Angela

Is there anything else that you want to fit in? Sounds like a lot. Is there anything else next? What's what next?

Mo

There is one more other thing, yeah!

Angela

Oh my gosh, can we?

Mo

I'm also on the advisory board at a company called Tech Native Digital, which is about addressing gaps in the tech sector for getting more women into roles, getting more people of different ages, people with different skills, yeah.

Angela

Yeah. I suppose you know lots about it, because obviously you were in it and you’re passionate about it, that'd be great. Could you also, obviously, after we finished, send the show notes, because I think that's really important. So for listeners, I think sometimes people don't see creatives, tech in creative, creativity, which is like, gosh.

Mo 

But it’s so creative.

Angela

So creative, but you - be great to have those links to the listener. Thank you so much. So what's next? For Watch This Sp_ce and for Mo, what's next? What's the future hold?

Mo

So the future holds hopefully another book, and hopefully more talking and really getting out there to really drive change. We've also done a lot of work on our products and services and really refined it into this message of the inclusion journey, that it's a journey, and it's not just one thing you do to make a difference. There's lots of things you do, so really honing in on that and just increasing our impact in what we do. So really being focused because, because we are creatives, we have new ideas all the time.

Angela

All the time.

Mo

We see something shiny and we want to do it. So we're having to be really, like, clear about what we do and really focusing on that. We have our own advisory board, which has been great, because they're people that help us, that say, Okay, let's define what you're going to…

Angela

So you’ve got actual advisory outsiders looking in? Is that right?

Mo

Yeah, so we had that idea because I was asked to join the advisory board at Tech Native Digital, and we were like, hang on a minute. We could do that as well. So we now have three fabulous people on our advisory board who have all different skills that help us with staying focused and, like, really figuring out what we're doing and giving us that outside perspective.

Angela

Yeah, that's really good. Can I ask a quick question, actually, because I've spoke to other, mainly women actually, seems like a lot of women in diversity? That isn't the question. But is there a lot of women? Yeah?

Mo

So it’s dominated, to be honest, it's dominated by white women, the diversity inclusion sector. There are different people in the sector, but it is more women that are in the sector too. But then that something needs to be addressed, that does need to change.

Angela

Yeah, I think my question was actually going to be around. I've heard other women, more so Black women, Asian women, going into spaces or going into companies, and then the company is actually saying to them, oh, yeah, that's great. Come and talk to us. And then they put their proposal forward, and then the company say, Oh, actually, I have to pay you. I didn't realise I had to pay you. I just think that's so terrible. And I just when they told me about that, I was like, Are they for real? And these are, like, big, like you said, FTSE 100 companies that can clearly afford it. But think it's just a nice thing to have to tick that CSR box, and I'm just, can you explain why they think that it's not worth paying for? Or is it just because they think can get away with not paying or do they really not have budgets?

Mo

So I've learned a lot.

Angela

I think it's not important.

Mo

A lot about what I say yes to. So yeah, loads of people, basically everybody wants you to do things for free, and it's not for free. This is our job. So you have to really show people what value we're going to bring and why this is important to them. For example, a big tech company, if they don't work on diversity and inclusion and have different kinds of people in the organisation, they're not going to generate loads of new ideas. You have to really show them that. And it is often the biggest companies that say they don't have budget. So I've learned to say no to loads of free things. I don't do that now. I've actually started doing, saying, if you want me to do something for free, I sometimes do, but then I say, can you make a donation to the Clock Tower Sanctuary? If I'm doing something for free, so I'll do things for free for some organisations, so like The Girls Network, where I'm a mentor. I do things. Yeah, that's fine, but big companies with budget need to prioritise budget for these kinds of things and question why they're not. If they're asking you to do these for free, would they do something for free? Probably not.

Angela

Probably not. Yeah. I mean, it's like, I always bring it back to Sainsbury's, but you don't go into Sainsbury's say, Oh, I'm just going to have that croissant. I don't want to pay for it, though, but I'm going to have it. I just think, why, do you want something? Pay for it.

Mo

Exactly. Yeah, which is the other thing with speaking at events. Like, it's good to do a few free to build up your experience, but then it's like, actually, no, hold on a minute.

Angela

You need to pay for this now, because I’m out of business. Yes, it's true, but it's to get an experience. I understand totally, you don't need to have to do it for free sometimes, but the bigger organisations, yeah, you need to start paying. Yeah, we've all got bills to pay.

Mo

Exactly.

Angela

So is there a dream client that you would like to work with?

Mo

I think probably a really cool tech company who were developing something that was going to be like, world changing, that would be amazing, yeah? But also, we do a lot of work with councils, and actually, that has such a massive impact on society. So working with more of them, because that's directly then impacting community. So maybe not as glitzy, but it's, you know, has a direct impact on society. So yeah, more of those.

Angela

Yeah, yeah. That's important actually, it's good. I'm glad you said that, because I think a lot of people don't, they underestimate the council. What's on offer in the councils? I know they offer quite a lot for small businesses and and they try and do events, obviously, for diversity inclusion. They're always trying to do that. And it's brilliant. In the summer we had, there was a multi faith Festival, and it was literally just in the town hall, and there was different faiths there and music and but then I think other people are not aware of that, but it'd be good if someone like you came along and told other councils about - they say, why don't you being creative with what they've got in their space and who they've got around them?

Mo

Yeah. So we work with quite a few Councils already, and we'd love to work more. And there is loads of support, actually, for starting out your business and how to scale it, and like community support and things like that. Be great if more people knew about those things.

Angela

Brilliant. Thanks, mate. I'm going to answer your question and just end on a personal note. Well, there's two personal note questions, what advice would you give your teenage self?

Mo

I get asked this a lot because I mentor teenagers.

Angela

Yeah, that’s why I’m asking!

Mo

What they always say is, did you know when you were like, 15/16, what you wanted to do? And I always say, No, I still don't know. I never knew. I never really planned it out or knew what I wanted to do. I think some people do, and they're really lucky. They know earlier on what they want to do. I didn't. It was all just things that happened along the way, and opportunities I took, and chance meetings and things like that. So I would say, like, don't worry. That's the advice I always give. Don't worry about having a fixed plan. Things happen along the way. Say yes to opportunities, and you never know where it takes you.

Angela

That's brilliant advice. That's really good advice. I like that. I like that. I do a quick fire final five questions. Don't worry, it's um one or the other. So I'll start off with:

Crisps or chocolates?

Mo

Crips.

Angela

Beach or forest?

Mo
Beach.

Angela

Book or Kindle?

Mo

Book.

Angela

Reggae or Soul?

Mo

Reggae.

Angela

Patty or a sandwich?

Mo

Sandwich.

Angela

Brilliant. Thank you so much mate. Is there anything else you'd like to add to the podcast on where people can find you, or any other parting words for us?

Mo

No, I'll add all the links. Our website is https://www.watchthisspace.uk/  but I'll send you all the links, and thanks so much for having me on. I've loved it.

Angela

Oh, thank you, Mo. I've loved it too. And thank you to Mel for putting us in touch. So yeah, so much. Take care.

Outro

Let me start by giving thanks. Thank you for tuning in to Creatives Like Us. I hope you enjoyed this episode and found it thought provoking, inspiring and entertaining. If you did, it would absolutely make my day if you could share, subscribe, rate, review, wherever you get your podcast from. Also, if you have a question or a comment, I'd love to hear from you, all the ways to connect are in the notes, until next time, keep being creative like us.